20 comments

1. While a church-level document, this report offers considerable insight for the layperson, not only in understanding the flaws in Johnson’s views, but in better grasping the precious grace of progressive sanctification.

2. This is an excellent report & truly needs to be read not only by church leadership, but by all believers. The ‘world’ in this present age has ‘brainwashed’ the populace to an extent I would never have believed possible. Such thoughtful writing is needed as it reframes the battleground around an issue central to the undermining of Biblical faith & worldview.

   It is also clear that Johnson’s understanding of human sexuality is quite limited. Is he not aware of the high lifetime probability of heterosexual contact among ‘gay’ men? Is he not aware of the frequency of homosexual behavior among prison populations? Once again, Johnson comes across as quite naive!

3. This report is excellent and Johnson should be willing to read and respond and/or be open to the correction that lies therein. I’m not certain the endgame of his crusade if he is not open to good faith dialogue. It appears an effort to railroad using LGBT-led tactics.

4. If any voting presbytery members wonder why Overture 15 needs to be resoundingly ratified, one needs only to review the legacy of Greg Johnson in the PCA. For any presbyters who think they can ordain without adverse consequence a candidate for ordination who “struggles” with homosexual desire but does not openly identify as homosexual then again one needs to look no further than Greg Johnson. These men may appear upright at their ordination examination but once ordained, the have a habit of “evolving” and I don’t mean toward orthodoxy. There needs to be a bright line between the qualifications for ordination and how the average member is dealt with regarding a proclivity toward unnatural lusts. Equivocal statements and inaction by ecclesiastical bodies only cause the problem to get worse, and this problem has gotten worse since the original ReVoice conference in 2018 because of this inaction and equivocation.

   • Doesn’t Johnson support gay marriage or at least same sex unions? This man lacks vital insight as per these words? What exactly would he be saving them from if his side b position is accepted?….

     “Greg Johnson | Memorial Pres. St. Louis
     @PcaMemorial
     ·
     Jul 1, 2021
     Already British evangelicals have lost much of the next generation to liberal theologies affirming same-sex unions. We are not far behind. Fear-driven fundamenetalist control measures will not win this generation.

     Love will.”

     How would a church not lose sanesexunions to liberal theologies affirming them? This guy makes no sense. He’s winging it….. something is way off here.

5. It seems the days of Fosdick and Machen are with the PCA again. In the times of that great struggle between biblical philosophies ie what the PCA stood for, fundamentalism won the day, and rightfully so.
   To Bob’s point, C.G. Finney is the perfect example of the purposeful dishonesty of a candidate for church office, and we all know what destruction ensued.
   After a not so short conversation with my TE about the PCA as a whole and specifically Mr. Johnson, I realized where the “other side” of the conversation comes from: the definition of concupiscience. He believes Greg John is a “Godly man and a Christian.” I disagreed and explained why. This is the crux of the matter. Both the WCF and the PCA’s own BCO, even without O15, make it perfectly clear the matter of the thought life in regards to sin and sanctification.
   I’m going out on a limb here in thinking that all of those who’ve hitched their wagons to Mr. Johnson are of the persuasion that in his thought life, the attraction and fantasies of engaging in homosexual acts, are no different than stealing a piece of penny candy.
   Yet, Mr. Johnson is still breathing, which means there is still time for him, and those who concur, to repent.

   • Hi Nick: I see the so-called “sideB” contingent trying to obfuscate this issue by four main methods. The first is that they conflate the qualifications for ordination and the qualifications for church membership. The second is that they at least imply that there are no degrees of heinousness of sin. Third is they make no distinction between unnatural and natural sins. Fourth, they believe and teach that homosexual attraction is a fixed character trait. A fifth that is surely part of the problem is the lack of understanding of concupiscence that you illustrated. What allows these erroneous beliefs to take hold is that there is a dearth of preaching and teaching regarding the truth of these matters. They wonder how you can you reach the lost of this “enlightened” generation with a Biblical message which exposes their sin?

6. My most generous reading against Overture 15 is that it’s difficult to outlaw some particular sinful description when we teach practices like a weekly confession of sin; theology like simultaneously sinner and justified; and Scripture like Romans 3 (Please consider reading Romans 3:10-18).

   My explanation of Overture 15 is that the church is reeling as we try to sort through the many and conflicting parts of Revoice advocacy.

   One way to describe the novel and radical thing Revoice advocacy does is to say that it teaches homosexuality socially. This is an umbrella terms that includes teaching homosexual identification publicly rather than privately; voluntarily rather than as part of a discipline process; civilly (like ethnicity or nationality) rather than illicitly; indignantly rather than with shame (repentance and mortification); as evangelism rather than as antinomianism; as culture rather than as sin. We could go on.

   Bob, here is my tentative division of tiers:

   The smallest mistake is the use of accurate stereotypes of sin in a benign way, as when we teach that homosexual men don’t like sports. This might be part of effeminacy and might be true but it’s still a mistake to teach such truth as benign rather than with sorrow.

   A greater mistake might be to teach the negative nature of homosexuality wrongly, as when we treat it as misery rather as sin (childlessness, or paraplegia); or as when we treat it like any other sin (gluttony).

   But Revoice advocacy is even more novel and radical when homosexuality is taught as a positive, as when we attribute good taste in furniture or tea to sin, or use the sin as a basis for social advice and public authority.

   Overture 15 may be the best way for PCA elders to address these issues for now. But even if the Revoice advocacy in Christianity Today, USA Today, STTC, etc had been written by a lay person rather than a TE it would still be a break from historical biblical ethics.

   • Joe in St. Louis: You wrote: “ My most generous reading against Overture 15 is that it’s difficult to outlaw some particular sinful description when we teach practices like a weekly confession of sin; theology like simultaneously sinner and justified; and Scripture like Romans 3 (Please consider reading Romans 3:10-18).”
     This is what I was referring to when I wrote that the “Side B” contingent seeks to conflate qualifications for ordination with qualifications for church membership. Those who “struggle” with unnatural lusts should indeed be confessing this sin. However they should be doing it in the pew, not in the pulpit.

7. As a PCA ruling elder who attended all of the last three GAs, I have to think the battle is lost. Three plus years after Greg Johnson’s speech on the floor at Dallas in 2019, he’s still there, and there is no prospect for his either repentance or removal. Game over, much as I hate to say it.

   I was also at the St. Louis GA, where I was very much heartened by passages of the relevant overtures by overwhelming margins. And I was very surprised by their failure in the Presbyteries. I went to Birmingham this year just to see what our response would be to that failure, and I am heartened again by Overture 15. I am praying that the Lord will preserve the purity of the PCA by whatever means He chooses. Which, of course, may not be the means I would choose.

   But if Overture 15 does fail in the Presbyteries, then the big question is, where do we go?

8. Tom: If I had to predict, I would say that Overture 15 will not pass but the weak tea that is Overture 29 will pass overwhelmingly and the problem will be declared solved. Subsequently Johnson will become more emboldened and he and the Missouri Presbytery will push the envelope even further.

9. Man, hearing from PCA insiders, this is depressing.

10. Identification of Sin.

    There’s a trend. We are racists…. It’s interesting I never heard a guy identity as a rapist (in thought). Are we not so depraved and do we not flea to Christ?

    Johnson does not deem himself an active engager of male pornography – that has been mortified as per his testimony. So is the attraction wrong and sinful or one to be embraced? He has not been subjected to proper scrutiny nor had to answer for himself.

    • …. I meant flee.

11. AJ: you wrote: “ He has not been subjected to proper scrutiny nor had to answer for himself.” You have just defined what it means to be a member of the PCA’s Missouri Presbytery.

    • I’m currently listening to a YouTube video recording of a recent podcast featuring Pastor Johnson, titled “Why I Stay: Greg Johnson on Being Gay and On Trial.”

      A few early observations, programs like CrossPolitics and hateful threats are not a good response.

      It is apparent, however, that Pastor Johnson sought relief and refuge in Christ, but could not shake the shame associated with same sex attraction.

      Personally, I’ve struggled with Christ as a refuge to help me deal with myself (and all the sinful and fallenness that entails). But ultimately, that is an immature and poor motivation to cling to Christ. Not only that, but it is not sustaining. We can never be filled with Christ if our motivation is personal improvement and acceptance. Ultimately, we have to move on from ourselves. It appears that Pastor Johnson, Revoice and those who identify as LGBT want to remain where they are at and feel better about themselves. That may sound merciful but it is ultimately demonic. ….. Jesus is not a license to acceptance or a personal self help. He is suffering, death, resurrection and eternal life. He is God. What are we without Him but our own eternal ruin.

      Too bad Johnson does not leave open the door of communication and step down while he gets it all figured out. He’s missing what it truly means to live and die with Christ.

    • AJ: What Johnson does is up to him. Should the PCA be held hostage while waiting for Johnson to “do the right thing”? Rather, the question has always been, why doesn’t the PCA do what it needs to do and should do by bringing discipline to bear on his situation. The first problem is that not only will Johnson not be disciplined by his own presbytery, it has defended him against outside action by other presbyteries. The court of last resort, the Standing Judicial Commission has been at least wholly ineffective if not complicit in his situation. The General Assembly is attempting to add teeth to the BCO by ratifying Overture 15. It’s passage appears to be a long shot but even if it passes, we are back to the requirement of the Missouri Presbytery or the SJC to bring disciplinary action against him. Based on recent history, that would appear to be the longest of shots.

12. Also telling is Pastor Johnson mentions that he found Christianity after becoming interested in and pursuing Social Justice. This too reveals a stunted and faulty motivation for entering religious Christian fellowship, especially if it remains so.

    The struggle should not be the story. We can certainly empathize with the struggle but it simply mustn’t be the story, and never, ever the identity or static sinful disposition.

    Ultimately, it sounds like Johnson may be as much a symptom of greater issues for the PCA. And every Reformed denomination in our day. We all struggle against some form of heresy.

13. Johnson’s book is framed by the host as the churches failed attempt to cure homosexuality. Hmmm…. Sounds problematic on multiple levels. Especially, the central theme in and of itself. Sounds, first and foremost like a mischaracterization.

14. I really love this. Just came across it…

    “He who is really honest with himself and has had his eyes opened in some degree to see the awful sinfulness of self, and who is becoming more and more acquainted with that sink of iniquity, that mass of corruption which still indwells him, often feels that sin more completely rules him now than ever it did before. When he longs to trust God with all his heart, unbelief seems to paralyze him. When he wishes to be completely surrendered to God’s blessed will, murmurings and rebellion surge within him.

    When he would spend an hour in meditating on the things of God, evil imaginations harass him. When he desires to be more humble, pride seeks to fill him. When he would pray, his mind wanders. The more he fights against these sins, the further off victory seems to be. To him it appears that sin is very much the master of him, and Satan tells him that his profession is vain. What shall we say to such a dear soul who is deeply exercised over this problem?

    The very fact that you are conscious of these sins and are so much concerned over your failure to overcome them, is a HEALTHY SIGN. It is the blind who cannot see; it is the dead who feel not – true alike naturally and spiritually. Only they who have been quickened into newness of life are capable OF REAL SORROW FOR SIN. Moreover, such experiences as we have mentioned above evidence a spiritual growth: a growth in the knowledge of self. As the wise man tells us, ‘he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow’ (Eccl. 1:18). In God’s light we see light (Ps. 36:9). The more the Holy Spirit reveals to me the high claims of God’s holiness, the more I discover how far short I come of meeting them.

    Let the midday sun shine into a darkened room, and dust and dirt which before were invisible are now plainly seen. So with the Christian: the more the light of God enters his heart, the more he discovers the spiritual filth which dwells there. Beloved brother, or sister, it is not that you are becoming more sinful, but that GOD IS NOW GIVING YOU A CLEARER AND FULLER SIGHT OF YOUR SINFULNESS. Praise Him for it, for the eyes of the vast majority of your fellows (religionists included) are blind, and cannot see what so distresses YOU!”

    ~ A.W. Pink

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