Two excellent and stimulating interviews. First, of the last three episodes of the White Horse Inn, their analysis of the survey of the responses by 90+ attendees to a Christian rally in St Louis was most enlightening. 67% of the respondents disagreed with the Psalmist and the Apostle Paul on sin! They’ve also re-posted an interview with William Willimon on the nature of Christian speech. This is a “must hear” interview. All church-growth types should be locked in a room and made to listen to this until they can recite it verbatim. You can find the shows at the White Horse Inn site.
Second, the Ordinary Means guys (Shaun and Matt, both WSC grads) recently posted a terrific interview with Ken Myers (Mars Hill Audio—no connection to Mars Hill Church). I’m very thankful to Dave Horner for introducing me to what was then known as the “Mars Hill Tapes” in 1993. I’ve been collecting, progressively, tapes, CDs, and now mp3 downloads ever since. I strongly recommend Mars Hill Audio. A couple of minor caveats about the interview, however:
Near the end, Matt asks a provocative question that, if I understood it correctly, seemed to contain a false premise regarding the two kingdoms, namely that the faith has nothing to do with our daily vocation. It has everything to do with it, but just not in the way that people often say. Ken gave a good answer by appealing to saying that creational/common life must be humanizing rather than de-humanizing but I disagree a bit with his assertion regarding the two kingdoms that it could become Marcionite. 1) This downplays, as Ken knows, the radical nature of what Marcion actually taught; 2) his appeal to Gunton’s Trinitarianism seemed rather vague. It’s certainly true that we only become fully human in Christ the God-Man but God hasn’t revealed himself as triune in nature nor do we encounter the gospel in nature. His answer seemed to confuse the two kingdoms. God reveals himself as triune in Holy Scripture and that is explained and preached in the sacred assembly, not by the plumber or the politician. Underlying his comment seemed to be an assumption that for things to be truly significant in the common sphere they have be connected to redemption or grace. I doubt the premise as that (rather than the 2 kingdoms) seems to me to be implicitly Marcionite. Common life doesn’t need to be “redeemed” to be significant or important. I think that was a breakthrough of the Reformation.
Still, I can’t help but wonder if “we only become fully human in Christ” is yet imprecise language or the sort of unfortunate short hand something like “we live the gospel” is. Is it really true that those not in Christ are less than fully human?
I’m thinking of Paul’s doctrine of the new creation
In the fall the image is profoundly marred and in Christ it is restored or begins to be restored
Sent from my iPhone
“First, of the last three episodes of the White Horse Inn, their analysis of the survey of the responses by 90+ attendees to a Christian rally in St Louis”
Franklin Graham rally in St. Louis, means it’s probably Rock the River. If so, this is typical youth group fare, out in American evangelicalism. The under 20s would be the youth, that mostly vanish from church after high school if not sooner. Those over 20 would be their keepers.