The Mob To Christians: You Will Conform

Let’s understand what happened here. This Christian jeweler agreed to custom-make engagement rings for a lesbian couple, knowing that they were a couple, and treated them politely. But when they found out what he really believed about same-sex marriage, even though the man gave them polite service, and agreed to sell them what they asked for, the lesbian couple balked, and demanded their money back — and the mob threatened the business if they didn’t yield. Which, of course, he did.

You understand, of course, that this is not about getting equal treatment. The lesbian couple received that. This is about demonizing a point of view, and driving those who hold it out of the public square. Just so we’re clear about that.

—Rod Dreher, “Heads LGBTs Win, Tails Christians Lose

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  1. Hopefully, one day they’ll miscalculate and tread on some Muslim toes!
    Actually they should be made to feel that their “wedding” will be just as “tainted” by the money they took back as it would have been by the rings if they’d kept the contract.

  2. The lgbt “lobby” unfortunately is just another front that the Counter-Reformation jesuit’s are using
    to destroy & efface what remains of mostly apostatised Protestantism within the United States.

  3. No I am not kidding, the lgbt agenda runs hand in hand with the feminist agenda, both of which are
    proven subplots of the Communist agenda, it is my contention that Jesuitism is using these things as
    tools for its continuing counter-reformation against protestantism, sorry if this comment is too controversial.

    The large lump of both nominal & professed evangelical Protestantism has jumped the rails.

    • DoD,

      Please look at the comments policy re pseudonymous comments. Conspiracy theories are fun and fascinating but almost always fall apart upon inspection. Why would the Jesuits promote homosexuality? What have they to gain?

    • As regards Conspiracy Theories, let us remember that Satan does not need human conspiracy in order to co-ordinate his forces. He is clever enough to attack on several humanly independent fronts.

    • I apologize pseudonymous comment was not meant, the sign on defaulted to my
      wordpress account, I post under Robert Joseph T., I’ll let you know what the T.
      stands for if you let me know what the R. stands for, privately of course.
      rudolph, randolph or rupert or something equally embarrassing I take it.

      If you read up on some historical books written up on the Jesuits you will see that
      conspiracy theories are not imagined, also Psalm 2:2, yes this was fulfilled inthe
      1st Century but the pattern is continually repeated by sinful leaders.

      “Why would the Jesuits promote homosexuality? What have they to gain?”

      We’ll there are many reasons why & many ways they could gain,
      I remember in a Donahue show back in the 80’s that said that 50% of the
      romish priesthood was homosexual, so recruitment is one.

    • Rather the mob advocating marital rights for sodomites and lesbians is only a useful tool and a bunch of puppets for Leviathan, who prospers temporarily when the alternate spheres and sources of authority and stability in society, such as the family – which enables society and the state in the first place – is weakened or destroyed.

      Sexual chaos and confusion leads to a disordered and guilty population which is that much easier to distract, if not cow into submission to a tyrannical govt.

      As for the Roman church, the Lavender Mafia is trying to undercut/control Rome itself, never mind the prots.

    • RJT, I googled Dr Clark to find out what the R stands for and yes, it is something far, far more embarrassing than anything you suggested – Indeed, anyone with that name will want to hang his head in shame and never let himself be seen in public again. However, compared with the place he got his “doctorate” from … Now THAT’s a total disgrace {signed JR, MA (Cantab.)}.

    • Alberto Rivera, for instance, has been totally discredited (e.g., Bart Brewer phoned him speaking Latin and was not understood – Actually, if I had not been still suffering from the effects of self-brainwashing, I would have realised that someone who could give a “Jesuit” INRI expansion as “Iustus Necar Reges Impius” had to be counterfeit – Necar is an infinitive in SPANISH, NOT IN LATIN), but Jack Chick still prints the Alberto Series (At least he did last time I checked) – as it was, I thought it was just an ordinary mistake), but Jack Chick was still publishing the Alberto Series last time I checked. Jackson’s take on this was something like “I wouldn’t put anything past the Jesuits, but we can’t trust anything from Rivera”.

  4. John I take it you have a familiarity with Prof. Clark, I on the other hand don’t,
    so will not be traveling further in that direction incase of the management
    getting irritated, though I did find your post amusing!

    • Robert,

      My first name is Robert. I was named for my Father and Grandfather. Here’s a bit about my father:

      My parents used my middle name to prevent confusion. My senior pastor in Kansas City suggested R. Scott Clark.

      As to the Jesuits, I teach church history. “Read up” is what I do. What specific, reliable, verifiable evidence do you have of conspiracies? I’m well aware of the 19th-century myths peddled by Protestants. Indeed, conspiracy theories surrounding the Jesuits go back to the 16th century. I’ve read Reformed writers from the period suggesting conspiracies, so the genre has a pedigree.

    • It’s hard to say, Robert, but I don’t think Dr Clark knows me personally much better than he does you. However, I could add that the Rokos Family do have a skeleton in the cupboard. My nephew got a “first”, having read mathematics at a certain Pembroke College that was in – gasp! The Disgrace of it – A UK TOWN OTHER THAN CAMBRIDGE! His father and I still don’t know how we shall live it down.

    • Robert is a great name! Surprised your parents didn’t go with Junior!
      Prof. I can’t but help thinking of the beatles song Dr Robert, if there’s
      anything that we need to know just ask…
      your fathers bio was interesting by the way.

      There’s no need for us Roberts to hang our heads in shame johnny boy.
      Pembroke college Oxford, right

      “As to the Jesuits, I teach church history. “Read up” is what I do.”
      Of course no offence intended.

      “What specific, reliable, verifiable evidence do you have of conspiracies?
      I’m well aware of the 19th-century myths peddled by Protestants.”

      I believe that their very own oaths which they swear talk about infiltrating
      other religious groups, sorry that you regard writings that expose their
      plans & actions, which are numerous, but myths.

      • Robert,

        Can you quote the oath? Can you point to an objective source that records the oath?

        Credible evidence must be something that a reasonable person, who is not already committed to a theory, could potentially accept as evidence. A case that rests on secret evidence or special interpretations (that assume the premise or that rest on special pleading) are not credible.

    • the Jesuit Extreme Oath of Induction has been entered into the U.S.Congressional
      Record in the Journals of the 62nd Congress, 3rd Session, of the United States
      Congressional Record (House Calendar No. 397, Report No. 1523, 15 February,
      Contested election case of Eugene C. Bonniwell, against Thos. S. Butler, 1913,
      pp. 3215-3216) according to the European Institute of Protestant Studies &
      appears in numerous publication, both domestic & foreign.

      Could you define credible, because for instance the “natural man receiveth not
      the things of the Spirit of God:” so he would think it foolish to believe that a snake
      & ass could speak, or fish swallow up people, coins be found in fishes mouths,
      or ravens feed a man, & other such like things but we receive them as true,
      by faith, for we know they don’t occur as the norm but extraordinarily.

      Jude 1:4 spoke of them “For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were
      before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men,”

  5. “Can you quote the oath?”

    he Jesuit Extreme Oath of Induction has been entered into the U.S.Congressional
    The following is the Jesuit Extreme Oath of Induction given to high ranking Jesuits
    only. This oath is taken from the book Subterranean Rome by Carlos Didier, tran-
    slated from the French, and published in New York in 1843.

    “When a Jesuit of the minor rank is to be elevated to command, he is conducted
    into the Chapel of the Convent of the Order, where there are only three others
    present, the principal or Superior standing in front of the altar. On either side
    stands a monk, one of whom holds a banner of yellow and white, which are the
    Papal colors, and the other a black banner with a dagger and red cross above
    a skull and crossbones, with the word INRI, and below them the words IUSTUM,
    NECAR, REGES, IMPIOUS. The meaning of which is: It is just to exterminate or
    annihilate impious or heretical Kings, Governments, or Rulers. Upon the floor is a
    red cross at which the postulant or candidate kneels. The Superior hands him a
    small black crucifix, which he takes in his left hand and presses to his heart, and
    the Superior at the same time presents to him a dagger, which he grasps by the
    blade and holds the point against his heart, the Superior still holding it by the hilt,
    and thus addresses the postulant:”


    My son, heretofore you have been taught to act the dissembler: among Roman
    Catholics to be a Roman Catholic, and to be a spy even among your own
    brethren; to believe no man, to trust no man. Among the Reformers, to be a
    reformer; among the Huguenots, to be a Huguenot; among the Calvinists, to be
    a Calvinist; among other Protestants, generally to be a Protestant, and obtaining
    their confidence, to seek even to preach from their pulpits, and to denounce with
    all the vehemence in your nature our Holy Religion and the Pope; and even to
    descend so low as to become a Jew among Jews, that you might be enabled to
    gather together all information for the benefit of your Order as a faithful soldier
    of the Pope.

    You have been taught to insidiously plant the seeds of jealousy and hatred
    between communities, provinces, states that were at peace, and incite them to
    deeds of blood, involving them in war with each other, and to create revolutions
    and civil wars in countries that were independent and prosperous, cultivating the
    arts and the sciences and enjoying the blessings of peace. To take sides with the
    combatants and to act secretly with your brother Jesuit, who might be engaged
    on the other side, but openly opposed to that with which you might be connected,
    only that the Church might be the gainer in the end, in the conditions fixed in the
    treaties for peace and that the end justifies the means.

    You have been taught your duty as a spy, to gather all statistics, facts and
    information in your power from every source; to ingratiate yourself into the
    confidence of the family circle of Protestants and heretics of every class and
    character, as well as that of the merchant, the banker, the lawyer, among the
    schools and universities, in parliaments and legislatures, and the judiciaries and
    councils of state, and to be all things to all men, for the Pope’s sake, whose
    servants we are unto death.

    You have received all your instructions heretofore as a novice, a neophyte, and
    have served as co-adjurer, confessor and priest, but you have not yet been
    invested with all that is necessary to command in the Army of Loyola in the service
    of the Pope. You must serve the proper time as the instrument and executioner as
    directed by your superiors; for none can command here who has not consecrated
    his labors with the blood of the heretic; for “without the shedding of blood no man
    can be saved.” Therefore, to fit yourself for your work and make your own
    salvation sure, you will, in addition to your former oath of obedience to your order and
    allegiance to the Pope, repeat after me—

    • Then the actual Oath itself, The Solemn League & Covenant has nothing on this

      The Extreme Oath of the Jesuits:

      “1, _ now, in the presence of Almighty God, the Blessed Virgin Mary, the blessed
      Michael the Archangel, the blessed St. John the Baptist, the holy Apostles St.
      Peter and St. Paul and all the saints and sacred hosts of heaven, and to you, my
      ghostly father, the Superior General of the Society of Jesus, founded by St.
      Ignatius Loyola in the Pontificate of Paul the Third, and continued to the present,
      do by the womb of the virgin, the matrix of God, and the rod of Jesus Christ,
      declare and swear, that his holiness the Pope is Christ’s Vice-regent and is the
      true and only head of the Catholic or Universal Church throughout the earth; and
      that by virtue of the keys of binding and loosing, given to his Holiness by my
      Savior, Jesus Christ, he hath power to depose heretical kings, princes, states,
      commonwealths and governments, all being illegal without his sacred confirmation
      and that they may safely be destroyed. Therefore, to the utmost of my power I
      shall and will defend this doctrine of his Holiness’ right and custom against all
      usurpers of the heretical or Protestant authority whatever, especially the Lutheran
      of Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and the now pretended
      authority and churches of England and Scotland, and branches of the same now
      established in Ireland and on the Continent of America and elsewhere; and all
      adherents in regard that they be usurped and heretical, opposing the sacred
      Mother Church of Rome. I do now renounce and disown any allegiance as due to
      any heretical king, prince or state named Protestants or Liberals, or obedience to
      any of the laws, magistrates or officers.

      I do further declare that the doctrine of the churches of England and Scotland, of
      the Calvinists, Huguenots and others of the name Protestants or Liberals to be
      damnable and they themselves damned who will not forsake the same.

      I do further declare, that I will help, assist, and advise all or any of his Holiness’
      agents in any place wherever I shall be, in Switzerland, Germany, Holland,
      Denmark, Sweden, Norway, England, Ireland or America, or in any other
      Kingdom or territory I shall come to, and do my uttermost to extirpate the heretical
      Protestants or Liberals’ doctrines and to destroy all their pretended powers, regal
      or otherwise.

      I do further promise and declare, that notwithstanding I am dispensed with, to
      assume my religion heretical, for the propaganda of the Mother Church’s interest,
      to keep secret and private all her agents’ counsels from time to time, as they may
      entrust me and not to divulge, directly or indirectly, by word, writing or
      circumstance whatever; but to execute all that shall be proposed, given in charge
      or discovered unto me, by you, my ghostly father, or any of this sacred covenant.

      I do further promise and declare, that I will have no opinion or will of my own, or
      any mental reservation whatever, even as a corpse or cadaver (perinde ac
      cadaver), but will unhesitatingly obey each and every command that I may
      receive from my superiors in the Militia of the Pope and of Jesus Christ.

      That I may go to any part of the world withersoever I may be sent, to the frozen
      regions of the North, the burning sands of the desert of Africa, or the jungles
      of India, to the centers of civilization of Europe, or to the wild haunts of the
      barbarous savages of America, without murmuring or repining, and will be
      submissive in all things whatsoever communicated to me.

      I furthermore promise and declare that I will, when opportunity present, make
      and wage relentless war, secretly or openly, against all heretics, Protestants
      and Liberals, as I am directed to do, to extirpate and exterminate them from
      the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex or condition;
      and that I will hang, waste, boil, flay, strangle and bury alive these infamous
      heretics, rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women and crush their
      infants’ heads against the walls, in order to annihilate forever their execrable
      race. That when the same cannot be done openly, I will secretly use the
      poisoned cup, the strangulating cord, the steel of the poniard or the leaden
      bullet, regardless of the honor, rank, dignity, or authority of the person or
      persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as
      I at any time may be directed so to do by any agent of the Pope or Superior
      of the Brotherhood of the Holy Faith, of the Society of Jesus.

      In confirmation of which, I hereby dedicate my life, my soul and all my
      corporal powers, and with this dagger which I now receive, I will subscribe
      my name written in my own blood, in testimony thereof; and should I prove
      false or weaken in my determination, may my brethren and fellow soldiers of
      the Militia of the Pope cut off my hands and my feet, and my throat from ear to
      ear, my belly opened and sulphur burned therein, with all the punishment that can
      be inflicted upon me on earth and my soul be tortured by demons in an eternal
      hell forever!

      All of which, I, _, do swear by the Blessed Trinity and blessed Sacraments, which
      I am now to receive, to perform and on my part to keep inviolable; and do call all
      the heavenly and glorious host of heaven to witness the blessed Sacrament of
      the Eucharist, and witness the same further with my name written and with the
      point of this dagger dipped in my own blood and sealed in the face of this holy

      (He receives the wafer from the Superior and writes his name with the point of
      his dagger dipped in his own blood taken from over his heart.)


      “You will now rise to your feet and I will instruct you in the Catechism necessary
      to make yourself known to any member of the Society of Jesus belonging to this

      In the first place, you, as a Brother Jesuit, will with another mutually make the
      ordinary sign of the cross as any ordinary Roman Catholic would; then one
      cross his wrists, the palms of his hands open, and the other in answer crosses
      his feet, one above the other; the first points with forefinger of the right hand to
      the center of the palm of the left, the other with the forefinger of the left hand
      points to the center of the palm of the right; the first then with his right hand
      makes a circle around his head, touching it; the other then with the forefinger of
      his left hand touches the left side of his body just below his heart; the first then
      with his right hand draws it across the throat of the other, and the latter then
      with a dagger down the stomach and abdomen of the first. The first then says
      Iustum; and the other answers Necar; the first Reges. The other answers
      Impious.” (The meaning of which has already been explained.) “The first will
      then present a small piece of paper folded in a peculiar manner, four times,
      which the other will cut longitudinally and on opening the name Jesu will be
      found written upon the head and arms of a cross three times. You will then
      give and receive with him the following questions and answers:

      Question —From whither do you come? Answer — The Holy faith.

      Q. —Whom do you serve?

      A. —The Holy Father at Rome, the Pope, and the Roman Catholic Church
      Universal throughout the world.

      Q. —Who commands you?

      A. —The Successor of St. Ignatius Loyola, the founder of the Society of Jesus
      or the Soldiers of Jesus Christ.

      Q. —Who received you? A. —A venerable man in white hair.

      Q. —How?

      A. —With a naked dagger, I kneeling upon the cross beneath the banners of the
      Pope and of our sacred order.

      Q. —Did you take an oath?

      A. —I did, to destroy heretics and their governments and rulers, and to spare
      neither age, sex nor condition. To be as a corpse without any opinion or will of
      my own, but to implicitly obey my Superiors in all things without hesitation of

      Q. —Will you do that? A. —I will.

      Q. —How do you travel? A. —In the bark of Peter the fisherman.

      Q. —Whither do you travel? A. —To the four quarters of the globe. Q. —For
      what purpose?

      A. —To obey the orders of my general and Superiors and execute the will of
      the Pope and faithfully fulfill the conditions of my oaths.

      Q. —Go ye, then, into all the world and take possession of all lands in the
      name of the Pope. He who will not accept him as the Vicar of Jesus and his
      Vice-regent on earth, let him be accursed and exterminated.”

      • Robert,

        This “oath” dates to 1689:

        Foxes and Firebrand by Robert Ware.

        This is neither an original (a Jesuit) nor objective source. It is widely characterized as a forgery akin to the Protocols of Zion.

        • UPDATE

          Until Robert made this claim I was unaware of the Wares (Robert and his father) nor of Foxes and Firebrands but I’m glad to know because it’s a great illustration of how conspiracy theories form and fail.

          I have before me Diarmaid MacCulloch, “Foxes, Firebrands, and Forgery: Robert Ware’s Pollution of Reformation History” The Historical Journal 54 (2011): 307–46 in which MacCulloch exposes the history of the hoax.

          Ware’s forgeries were first exposed in the 19th century but they’ve persisted because, as is true of every conspiracy theory I’ve ever encountered, the forgeries say what the theory needs said, as they might say in Pittsburgh (where they say, “the lawn needs mowed”).

          The Wares were closely associated with Archbishop Ussher. James had roots in Yorkshire but was born in Dublin. Robert was raised in the midst of tumult and powerful Protestant/Roman tensions. The short story is that Robert, for various reasons, some personal, some ideological, added, in his own hand, forgeries to his father’s books. Those forgeries went undetected until the 19th century. Obviously, as Robert illustrates, they still persist.

          That they have been entered into the Congressional Record proves nothing. Anything may be entered into the CR by a member of Congress. The CR is not an original source. It is a record of speeches and other matters entered into for future reference. If the CR were vetted for accuracy it would be much shorter than it is.

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